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-   -   Layers in fantastic beasts and where to find them (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=132475)

Spirit January 23rd, 2017 4:23 am

Re: Layers in fantastic beasts and where to find them
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by witchsmart (Post 6108209)
I watched the opening newspaper montage again (Some of the titles are really great, personally I want to know what the "Ginger Bronx Witch" one was about) and there seems to be so many different headlines for only a few hours. But reading over the scene you provided that does seem like the case. Still, Grindelwald would have had to have worked incredibly fast to get everything set up in just a few hours. Do we know where he escaped from? They seem to know he's in America, perhaps he was being held in a prison there?

There's some pictures of the newspapers on Tumblr (username wizardingworlddaily) where you can actually zoom in on the pages. There's a lot of good things in those headlines, especially the Daily Prophet's one. Harry's paternal grandfather is actually on the front page, Fleamont Potter.

But we don't know exactly where Grindelwald was escaping from, but we know it wasn't from the United States. The script says his breakout happened "somewhere in Europe," so it definitely wasn't near or within the USA. I don't think it was Britain either though, since JK Rowling always said Grindelwald avoided Great Britain because of Dumbledore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by witchsmart (Post 6108209)
Is it definitely that Grindelwald is Graves for the entirety of the movie? Do we ever see the real Graves, perhaps earlier on, and then Grindelwald takes over partway through?

I think it's impossible for us to know. It certainly seems like Grindelwald was impersonating Graves the entire time. But the fact he was able to escape from somewhere in Europe and actually go to work the next morning as Graves, a Head Auror of MACUSA, is a little difficult to imagine to me. He seemed comfortable as Graves. He knew people's names, knew their backgrounds, etc. (though he did hesitate/fumble on Abernathy's name once). I honestly have to wonder if Graves is a supporter of Grindelwald's. I wonder if Graves knew Grindelwald beforehand, and when Grindelwald wanted to take on his identity, Graves was willing to comply and even helped him out with names and info. It just seemed like Grindelwald knew what he was doing far too well for this whole swap to be completely random and unplanned....

And, if Graves is a supporter and friend of Grindelwald's, then Grindelwald may have impersonated Graves on more than just one occasion, perhaps with or without the knowledge of Graves. Grindelwald seemed to really know Credence. Maybe he's transformed into Graves to speak with Credence before.

witchsmart January 24th, 2017 3:07 am

Re: Layers in fantastic beasts and where to find them
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spirit (Post 6108216)
And, if Graves is a supporter and friend of Grindelwald's, then Grindelwald may have impersonated Graves on more than just one occasion, perhaps with or without the knowledge of Graves. Grindelwald seemed to really know Credence. Maybe he's transformed into Graves to speak with Credence before.

Exactly. :agree: Credence had been raised to fear the consequences of magic, there is no way Grindelwald could have established that kind of trust and devotion in just a few hours. I'd say Graves was an alternate persona, given that that he used transfiguration to disguise himself, only that doesn't work with him being in prison, people who notice if a high Ministry official went missing. There definitely needed to be some prior plan in place, especially since Grindelwald is not from America, and would need to research how the American wizarding government works in order to pose as a high official.

Jo's usually careful about the details, so maybe there is more to this than we are seeing and it's not just an inconsistency.


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