Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

[muggleview]

It surely points out that the presence of Dumbledore drove away whatever dark feeling surrounding Colin was. McGonagall might feel something was there just before she found Colin. Dumbledore happened to come down and the monster seemed to go away at the time.

[wolfbrother]

When the trio disapparate from Bill's wedding, they reappear straight into the middle of the street full of muggles. Minor plot-hole I guess.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

When the trio disapparate from Bill's wedding, they reappear straight into the middle of the street full of muggles. Minor plot-hole I guess.

Sorry, but how is that a plot hole? Wasn't Hermione the one who picked the place? It was the first thing that popped into her head and she was controlling the disapparating. She said that she thought they'd be safer among muggles, that no one would expect them to be there. It was a crowded, noisy night spot, which would provide some cover. And she was right, only they didn't know Voldemort's name had been linked to a detection charm.

By the way, it's fun to have one more difference of opinion with you as we say goodbye to COS .

[wolfbrother]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

Sorry, but how is that a plot hole? Wasn't Hermione the one who picked the place? It was the first thing that popped into her head and she was controlling the disapparating. She said that she thought they'd be safer among muggles, that no one would expect them to be there. It was a crowded, noisy night spot, which would provide some cover. And she was right, only they didn't know Voldemort's name had been linked to a detection charm.

Right. I just found it odd that the muggles didn't freak out when people suddenly popped up out of nowhere. More of an inconsistency than a plot-hole I guess.

By the way, it's fun to have one more difference of opinion with you as we say goodbye to COS .

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

Right. I just found it odd that the muggles didn't freak out when people suddenly popped up out of nowhere. More of an inconsistency than a plot-hole I guess.

Well, muggles don't take notice much of what's going on, right? So the risk would be lower than disapparating to a wizard community area.

[wolfbrother]

Still, you'd expect a bunch of muggles to notice a random sudden appearance. I was just surprised that Hermione didn't apparate into a side street and then joined the main street.

[cardinalguy]

What was it Arthur Weasley said? "Muggles, bless them, they'll go to any lengths to ignore magic, even if it's right in front of them," or something along those lines.

[MrSleepyHead]

Or this exchange about the Knight Bus:

PoA “How come the Muggles don’t hear the bus?” said Harry. “Them!” said Stan contemptuously. “Don’ listen properly, do they? Don’ look properly either. Never notice nuffink, they don’.”

Platform 9 3/4 is another perfect example: in the heart of a London train station, Muggles don't seem to notice students and their parents disappearing into a barrier.

I think the Tottenham Court Road situation is just a continuation of that - particularly since they Apparated into a throng of people on a busy street. In any crowd it's not uncommon for people to just pop up in front of you, so any Londoners who may have noticed wouldn't attribute it to magic:

DH Harry opened his eyes. For a moment he thought they had not left the wedding after all; They still seemed to be surrounded by people. "Tottenham Court Road," panted Hermione. "Walk, just walk, we need to find somewhere for you to change."

[wolfbrother]

Looks like Harry and Ron got unlucky with their flying car experience...

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

Looks like Harry and Ron got unlucky with their flying car experience...

True, but it would also be a lot harder to ignore a car flying in an otherwise empty sky out in the country than three people showing up in the middle of a crown in the city - or a bus in heavy traffic. You could tell yourself that you bumped into someone in a crown because you didn't notice them before or scold yourself for not paying enough attention to heavy traffic if you encounter the bus. What do you tell yourself when a car dips down out of the clouds when there's nothing else around?

[BurrowGhoul]

Originally Posted by wolfbrother

Looks like Harry and Ron got unlucky with their flying car experience...

Well, Ron DID complain because Fred and George had driven it loads of times and never got caught.

[MrSleepyHead]

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul

Well, Ron DID complain because Fred and George had driven it loads of times and never got caught.

Though I would expect that Fred and George, surprisingly, took a bit more precaution - even if it was just inherent. The night they rescued Harry was cloudy (at least, that was used as a justification). And I imagine that other times they 'borrowed' the car would have been during the night when Molly was asleep (we don't know how often she actually left the Burrow), and that they would have been driving mostly through countryside and fairly low population density areas. In contrast, Ron and Harry flew the car on a sunny day, late-morning, and out of the largest metropolitan area in the UK! No wonder they were seen.

[sjcuk13]

I have always found it a little odd that Harry can disappear for weeks at a time when he is locked in the cupboard under the stairs and not one of the neighbors raises the alarm (considering they are all nosing on each other). Why don't any of his primary school teachers raise the alarm with social services or just raise the alarm to see why he keeps disappearing for long periods at a time.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead

Though I would expect that Fred and George, surprisingly, took a bit more precaution - even if it was just inherent. The night they rescued Harry was cloudy (at least, that was used as a justification). And I imagine that other times they 'borrowed' the car would have been during the night when Molly was asleep (we don't know how often she actually left the Burrow), and that they would have been driving mostly through countryside and fairly low population density areas. In contrast, Ron and Harry flew the car on a sunny day, late-morning, and out of the largest metropolitan area in the UK! No wonder they were seen.

That was my impression as well. Flying the car at night or when it was cloudy would make it less likely for anyone to see the car - or recognize it as a car. Sightings like that at night would likely be reported as UFO sightings in tabloids and the Ministry would not be concerned about exposure with something like that.

Harry and Ron flew the car on a sunny day. They did stay above the cloud cover for the most part, but they had to dip down under the clouds from time to time to find the train and make sure they were headed in the right direction. That led to them being seen and, as I mentioned above, it would be more difficult for muggles to ignore it or convince themselves they were seeing a plane or something "normal" in those circumstances.

Originally Posted by sjcuk13

I have always found it a little odd that Harry can disappear for weeks at a time when he is locked in the cupboard under the stairs and not one of the neighbors raises the alarm (considering they are all nosing on each other). Why don't any of his primary school teachers raise the alarm with social services or just raise the alarm to see why he keeps disappearing for long periods at a time.

The Dursleys were more careful than that. They did let Harry out to attend school to avoid raising any suspicion. The one time Harry was locked up in the cupboard for weeks that was described on page occurred during the summer. Harry was let out just before it was time for school to start. During the school year, it is likely that he would have been let out to attend school and locked up while he was at home. The Dursleys were near obsessive in presenting a "normal" appearance to their neighbors so they wouldn't have risked anything that would be obvious or raise questions.

Another example would be the trip to the zoo. Uncle Vernon had no intention of buy Harry any kind of treat, but when they bought Dudley and his friend ice cream, the counter person made that assumption and asked Harry what he wanted so Vernon bought him a cheap lemon pop. That was all about maintaining the image of normality for them.

[cardinalguy]

Originally Posted by meesha1971

The Dursleys were more careful than that. They did let Harry out to attend school to avoid raising any suspicion. The one time Harry was locked up in the cupboard for weeks that was described on page occurred during the summer. Harry was let out just before it was time for school to start. During the school year, it is likely that he would have been let out to attend school and locked up while he was at home. The Dursleys were near obsessive in presenting a "normal" appearance to their neighbors so they wouldn't have risked anything that would be obvious or raise questions.

I also had the impression they kept the whole cupboard thing a secret from everybody. When Harry's first Hogwarts letter is addressed "the cupboard under the stairs," Vernon wonders how they know (thinking they may have surveillance on the house) and immediately moves Harry to Dudley's second bedroom.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead

Though I would expect that Fred and George, surprisingly, took a bit more precaution - even if it was just inherent. The night they rescued Harry was cloudy (at least, that was used as a justification). And I imagine that other times they 'borrowed' the car would have been during the night when Molly was asleep (we don't know how often she actually left the Burrow), and that they would have been driving mostly through countryside and fairly low population density areas. In contrast, Ron and Harry flew the car on a sunny day, late-morning, and out of the largest metropolitan area in the UK! No wonder they were seen.

Also, the invisibility booster failed during the trip, and Ron had to risk lowering under the cloud cover to make sure they were going in the same direction as the train:

Originally Posted by COS, chapter 5, pages 70-71 US edition

There was a popping noise and Ron, Harry and the car reappeared.

"Uh-oh," said Ron, jabbing at the Invisibility Booster. "It's faulty ---"

Both of them pummeled it. The car vanished. Then it flickered back again.

"Hold on!" Ron yelled as he slammed his foot on the accelerator; they shot straight into the woolly clouds and everything turned dull and foggy.

"Now what?" said Harry, blinking at the solid mass of cloud pressing in on them from all sides.

"We need to see the train to know what direction to go in," said Ron.

"Dip back down again -- quickly --"

They dropped back beneath the clouds and twisted in their seats, squinting at the ground.

"I can see it!" Harry yelled. "Right ahead -- there!"

The Hogwarts Express was streaking down below them like a scarlet snake.

"Due North," said Ron, checking the compass on the dashboard. "Okay, we'll just have to check on it every half hour or so -- hold on--"

So they were at a disadvantage because they couldn't stay cloaked, yet needed to check on their direction.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by cardinalguy

I also had the impression they kept the whole cupboard thing a secret from everybody. When Harry's first Hogwarts letter is addressed "the cupboard under the stairs," Vernon wonders how they know (thinking they may have surveillance on the house) and immediately moves Harry to Dudley's second bedroom.

Good example. I should have included that one. The Dursleys were very image conscious so they were careful with how they behaved towards Harry in public and concocted stories for the neighbors that made them think Harry was unstable. Like many abused children, Harry never told anyone what they were doing to him. That changed when he went to Hogwarts - though even there, I don't think he actually told anyone the full extent of the abuse he suffered. Not in great detail anyway.

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

Also, the invisibility booster failed during the trip, and Ron had to risk lowering under the cloud cover to make sure they were going in the same direction as the train:

So they were at a disadvantage because they couldn't stay cloaked, yet needed to check on their direction.

That's true. But Fred and George didn't use the invisibility booster when they took the car to rescue Harry. It wasn't even mentioned at that point. It's not really clear in the books, but I've always wondered if Arthur installed the invisibility booster because of them taking the car to rescue Harry - the booster being faulty implied that it might have been recently installed and had not been tested yet. Or maybe he'd just never mentioned it before so the kids never knew about it. Either way, they didn't use it that night. Still, the booster was faulty so, even though Ron tried to use it, it didn't provide any benefit for him and Harry.

[Moriath]

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