HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

*Tonks* · #1 June 19th, 2007, 2:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by First post of the original thread

Okay, I'll admit it. I got this idea from the "Harry Potter Read-a-Thon" in the History of Magic forum. Okay, here's the idea:

Anyone who has ALL of the Harry Potter movies, so far, on DVD can join in on this thread. What we'll do is watch each movie chapter by chapter, watching a total of one chapter per day. We'll start discussions about movie/book comparisons, hidden messages, flaws, ideas, etc. Anyone can join in and comment about the chapter. Remember that you MUST have the DVD to do this because chapters are only on DVDs. We'll start by watching the first chapter of SS/PS tommorow.

Cheers,
Simon

Current Chapter and Past Discussions:

Last Posts:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfutterman

I cannot disagree more strongly.

It is not the jobs of the scriptwriter and director to plod through the book, page by page, chapter by chapter, regurgitating written scenes, lines, etc. That is a failure of adaptation. The first rule of cinema: show, don't tell.

Take the scene between Harry and Ron in the dorm: completely unnecessary. All that was needed was shown in the Great Hall, with the woozy tracking shot showing Harry's shocked progress through crowds of his suspicious peers, and the one shot of Ron's face, where we see suspicion, resentment, jealousy.

Pretty good.

Then the good invented scene shows us that the elders are concerned, even frightened. Ratchets up the tension. Harry and Ron arguing just chucks gobbets of exposition at the audience, and the largely pointless character of Rita Skeeter adds more pointless and draggy detail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wimsey

Ultimately, what is important is whether the scene (or portion of a scene) drives story, plot or theme. If it does none of these, then the fact that it is in the book is not an excuse to include it. (Indeed, it is an excuse to complain that the book needed tighter editing!)

I am of two minds where Skeeter is concerned. On one hand, I can watch Miranda Richardson until Pluto turns into a gas giant. She played the part well, and it does introduce a few laughs into a movie that needs a few. On the other hand, the scene did nothing to advance the plot, and the contribution to story simply could not be done, because there simply was not room to have Harry to bravely face up to negative press. (Also, it was too similar to Harry having to stare at the "Potter Sucks" badges!) Fortunately, Skeeter's screen time was very short, although it no doubt felt long to those who did not like it.

I have similar qualms with the "adults only" scene. On one hand, I disliked the deviation from narrative form: this is supposed to be single protagonist! On the other hand, it did make Snape look suspicious (why is he suggesting that things just unfold?), and also makes Dumbledore look a little Machiavellian (having recovered from the shock, he now is planning and thinking). I also liked the brief showing of the Pensieve.

The fight between Harry and Ron was OK. Still, we all know that Ron is always steadfastly loyal to Harry: should the movies be inventing stuff like this that Rowling would never include in her books??? [/sarcasm] Seriously, the timing was a little off, but that was a production issue. mrfutterman is right: this scene could have been cut, and the necessary lines (both of them!) could have been added to the "I"m not an owl" scene.

Oh, and the shot of Ron's face after Harry's name is draw is great: it was like Smeagol -> Gollum.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfutterman

I approve of the "adults only" scene. We all know that Harry will live to appear in a film again in 2 years time, so there is little natural suspense in the series (at least until characters we know start getting killed). The director, pretty much hamstrung, needs to use every means within his power to add tension, and this scene achieved that.

I agree on Skeeter providing some light relief, and of course Miranda was super, but I didn't consider the time spent on her well invested.

Continue the discussion!

Tabris93 · #2 June 19th, 2007, 5:51 am

Well, again it just shows that we have a different take on the movies. I for one see it as a visualization of the books, as opposed to many seeing it as a movie, first and foremost, which should follow the standard of storytelling-movies.

RoonibWazley · #3 June 19th, 2007, 7:42 am

But that's not how the movies are made. No movies are a visualization of the book. All movie adaptations of a book are just that: adaptations. Changes are inevitable.

All movies need to adhere to the standard of movie storytelling: show, don't tell. Otherwise, the audience will not like the movie.

~~DarwinMayflower~~ · #4 June 19th, 2007, 7:43 am

Well that's the interesting thing about GoF or even the succeeding novels later. There's just so much that Rowling adds in later that is somewhat significant, you wonder how you could bring or efficiently put them together in order to make a good film. With the point of Skeeter, I love her performance and her symbolic presence in the broom closet. Upon rethinking about certain things, it's quite a neat little thing that Rowling put into the novel in the first place and being represented in the film. It shows greatly how Skeeter disregards people's boundries, even making a broom closet a interviewing room despite Harry being uncomfortable.

But at the same time the very sad thing is how later on (as with most other things) this small introduction to a character and their personality in the series is completely sacked to the sidelines. They lack a continuing presence with anyone that isn't the trio later on into the film. Which really sort of irks me since to me a good film is great as a whole...not in bits and pieces. The themes should be continuing, not a flash in the pan.

It will be hard to see how the next few films will rectify the problem of introducing characters but maintaining their presence throughout the film (no matter how little screen time they have). The Potterverse has easily been crowded with throwaway characters that can not be thrown away for the sake of something significant in the novel, but not film-wise.

RoonibWazley · #5 June 19th, 2007, 7:48 am

It's a good thing that the movies have continued including very minor characters like Dean, Seamus, Flitwick, etc, if only for visual continuity. Who knows, maybe Seamus will have a larger roll in DH.

~~thedragonfly~~ · #6 June 19th, 2007, 1:43 pm

I have to kind of disagree with mrfutterman. While I don't think the Harry and Ron scene in the dorm room was vital to the movie, I'm not so sure it should have been cut or was "completely unnecessary". Yes, the scene where they show Ron's face is amazing, and would probably be sufficient for someone who has read the books. But for people who didn't read the books and have simply been following the movies, the dorm scene is a bit of a clarifying piece, that helps make sure the viewer got the message. It's kind of like a tap, "hey, did you see that?" It also shows some of the resentment and jealousy that's been building over the years. Obviously changes have to be made, 400, 500, 600 page books can't be completely covered in 2 to 3 hours, but the writers can't cut everything, unless, of course, you think that people have no business watching the movies if they haven't read the books.

Tabris93 · #7 June 19th, 2007, 2:18 pm

Of course, thing has to change. But they also change things tha doesn't have to be changed, and that is where I disagree. It can be similar to, if not completely alike, the books.

If all the side-stories and details aren't necessary in the movies, why does JKR bother putting them in the books? Because it adds depth, fullness and entertainment to the reader. It makes the world more alive, richer and the books more entertaining. So if you strip away all that because you want a streamlined movie, you end up with nothing more than the skeleton framework. You don't need anything else, but you lose a whole lot in that process.

So I don't want a scene to be included simply because it is needed, but because it shows some of the richness in the books. Not everything can be included, of course, but you should have more than the basic framework for a movie to be good, in my mind.

*jammi567* · #8 June 19th, 2007, 6:40 pm

They may be nice details, but if they destract from the story that a movie has a tight time limit on telling, then it needs to be got rid of.

Tabris93 · #9 June 19th, 2007, 6:43 pm

I don't think they should, as I believe they enrichen the story instead of destract from it. Then again, we've had this discussion several times on this thread, so maybe it's better to just disagree and get on with the movie.

*jammi567* · #10 June 19th, 2007, 6:46 pm

Probally best. What chapter are we on?

RoonibWazley · #11 June 19th, 2007, 8:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris93

Of course, thing has to change. But they also change things tha doesn't have to be changed, and that is where I disagree. It can be similar to, if not completely alike, the books.

If all the side-stories and details aren't necessary in the movies, why does JKR bother putting them in the books? Because it adds depth, fullness and entertainment to the reader. It makes the world more alive, richer and the books more entertaining. So if you strip away all that because you want a streamlined movie, you end up with nothing more than the skeleton framework. You don't need anything else, but you lose a whole lot in that process.

So I don't want a scene to be included simply because it is needed, but because it shows some of the richness in the books. Not everything can be included, of course, but you should have more than the basic framework for a movie to be good, in my mind.

Unlike novels, movies have a limit to how much they can show. Aside from rare exceptions like Titanic or The Lord of the Rings, audiences do not want to sit for long movies.

The objective of any movie is to tell a story in an entertaining fashion. Little side details like the ones you want to add will make the movie longer, and thus people will be more apt to dislike it.

Basically, a scene should only be in the movie if it fits one of these 3 criteria (and if it fits all three, so much the better):

1) It supports the main plot(s).
2) It contributes to the story.
3) It is cinematically entertaining.

CrazyMuggle · #12 June 19th, 2007, 9:17 pm

I agree with Cityx in that the dorm argument was a necessary scene for non-readers. The look in the Great Hall conveys Ron's feelings towards Harry but the Dorm scene throws it in your face (you now truly understand how and why he feels that way.) Rita Skeeter, whether vital or not, is a fun little addition for book fans. Richardson's performance was perfect and the "12, no 14" always makes me smile. The movies really need to show only what is necessary but adding in details like these gives them more depth (I know that sounds contradicting but... whatever

.)

~~lindaluna~~ · #13 June 20th, 2007, 6:36 am

I agree that there are so many throw away characters (like Lockhart). Their distraction value in the books makes them worth it, but in the movies you want a more cohesive feeling. But I'm hoping after book 7 that the makers of Movies 6 and 7 will be able to concentrate - knowing the final themes.

I wasn't sorry to see no more of Rita Skeeter. She was too much journalist and too little bug.

PS - another reason Moody's Mad Eye is Voldie's Spy Cam - "I spy with my little eye...."

I liked the dorm scene for the line "Harry Potter's stupid friend" which had a lot of resonance!

bumblybee · #14 June 20th, 2007, 11:57 pm

This is getting a little ahead (sorry), but since we are discussing the argument between Harry and Ron it is relevant. The scene in the dorm could've been stronger. The acting wasn't the best. I don't think it was unnecessary, but the time could've been better spent without the actual fight, just having Ron act coldly toward Harry. Then instead of having the ridiculous "I'm not an owl!" scene, they could've had the scene where Hermione explains why Ron is so upset with him, like she does in the book. They could've had Hermione seek Harry out saying that Hagrid wants to meet him that night, and then proceed with the conversation they have by the lake. This is better because 1) the audience will understand Ron's point of view, 2) it's better dialog than what the lake scene has (and it adds characterization), and 3) it always annoyed me that Ron knows about the dragons in the movie. It would also still show how Hermione is caught in the middle, without the embarrassing (and pointless) he said-she said.

I really like Miranda Richardson as Rita Skeeter, and this is a great scene between them in the closet. My only problem with Rita is that she completely disappears after her article about Harry-Hermione-Krum. I think if they were going to include her, they should have at least continued to show a few more articles here or there making up stuff about Harry, causing him trouble. She was kind of unnecessary in the movie. She's just sort of there with no purpose.

~~lindaluna~~ · #15 June 21st, 2007, 5:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumblybee

Then instead of having the ridiculous "I'm not an owl!" scene, they could've had the scene where Hermione explains why Ron is so upset with him, like she does in the book..

That scene (I just watched it tonight) was great because dialogue is something like
Hermione (to ROn): Just tell him yourself!

Then the whole spiel.

So it leads to the idea that Hermione knew it was Ron telling Harry.
And Hermione doesn't like lying.

Hermione telling Harry why Ron was mad would have been redundant. It was obvious.

The next scenes in order (I can never remember but I'm watching tonight) were Harry in the owlry with the note ( I love Gary Oldham's voice) and the owl that bites. And then Sirius in the fire (stupidest special effect ever) All to avoid paying Oldham face time. Ridiculus!

Undrhil · #16 June 25th, 2007, 6:51 am

I never did understand why this scene was included in the movie (except to add a little time to the movie) but when you look at the other stuff they have which could have been added (SPEW, for example) I would rather they add the scenes with Rita Skeeter than the scenes with SPEW. Also, it showed that there are witches and wizards which are *not* evil but clearly not good, either. This will be further expanded upon in Order of the Phoenix when we meet Professor Umbridge.

~~lindaluna~~ · #17 June 27th, 2007, 6:07 am

Gary Oldham is sooooo good! Is he also playing Phineus Nigellus?

I can't believe he wasn't in movie 4 at all. The Money should have gone to him, not Rita Skeeter. Unless her presence is ... to establish the wasp on the window who plants the sirius vision in harry's mind in book 5 ... but they never established her as an animagus either.. so really pointless.

*yoshi2542* · #18 June 27th, 2007, 10:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindaluna

Gary Oldham is sooooo good! Is he also playing Phineus Nigellus?

I can't believe he wasn't in movie 4 at all. The Money should have gone to him, not Rita Skeeter. Unless her presence is ... to establish the wasp on the window who plants the sirius vision in harry's mind in book 5 ... but they never established her as an animagus either.. so really pointless.

He did appear in GOF. He had a voiceover and appeared as a embers in the fire. It was still him doing the voice and providing the basis for the head in the coals, we saw footage of them filming him for the fireplace scene around the time the DVD came out if I recall.

~~lindaluna~~ · #19 June 28th, 2007, 6:44 am

I recognized the voice. but why no face time? Waste of spectacular actor.

~~DarwinMayflower~~ · #20 June 28th, 2007, 8:03 am

Previous Movie Posts
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

Previous Chapter Post
GoF Chp 1: The Riddle House
GoF Chp 2: The Port Key
GoF Chp 3: The Quidditch World Cup
GoF Chp 4: The Dark Mark
GoF Chp 5: The Tri-Wizard Tournament
GoF Chp 6: The Goblet of Fire
GoF Chp 7: The Unforgivable Curses
GoF Chp 8: The Four Champions
GoF Chp 9: Let Events Unfold

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Chapter 11: Sirius Conversation

Now that I have some time.

It's nice that Hogwart's keeps on changing their architecture from movie to movie with the inclusion of the Owlery.

I'm quite happy that the old rickety bridge was still included from the previous film, however the Owlery does have a great logical reasoning but stylistically it sort of irks me in certain ways. I like the reasoning behind it being that of course the Owlery would have to be away from the castle unless you want to be near the hooting and screeching of owls all near the castle. However at the same time I've always envisioned it to be actually in or at least on the castle. The actual design of it is pretty...bare bones and cold. It might be due to my experience of seeing aviaries, carrier pidgeons or just other bird related storage places in films, but I almost imagined it to be a bit more warm and with wooden structures. Within the HP movie-verse my preference might be heavily influenced by the presence of wood in the Great Hall of which we first got to see the owl post in action.

It's not without it's charm though. There's bird matter everywhere (or at least calcium deposits) and it does look very roughly hewn as if it was a bare bones tower for the owls. But once again it does look a touch too cold. Even the opening shot to this scene looks dreary almost industrial at times which makes me wonder if that was intentional or if they were going for a pollution/smoggy/cloudy UK weather look.

As we leave on a small comedic note, we come to another heavily discussed topic of GoF. Sirius' head in the fireplace. I admit we've come a fairly long way in terms of SFX but I think flame effects are still one of the more difficult things to do, evenmoreso the idea of making a reconizable face in it. Now granted they could have done something like the Wizard of Oz:

But really what would that accomplish rather than make people feel that they've seen better SFX on a sci-fi television budget. They could have done something like the water effect in the Abyss or the head cloud of sand from The Mummy, but that's on a large scale with a generally smooth liquid form. With flames, I doubt that it could be done, at least in such a way that it doesn't look cheesy as heck.

However in general it looked decent. I like it for the aspect that in keeping the whole meeting a low-key, secretive and discreet; the SFX really sort of suit it as opposed to having a roaring flame with an almost expected roaring voice of Sirius. Hushed whispers in the dying embers. The dialogue leaves much to be improved upon, tossing in red Herrings which are too small to notice and not expanded upon at all. As much as I appreciated the cut of Sirius visiting Hogsmeade later, it did seem a bit crammed in to include Sirius' small description of Crouch Sr. of which his own iron clad ministry rule-minding is never completely shown in the film in the first place.

It's nice that we do have that last little line from Sirius about keeping Harry's friends close which is really my appreciation is beginning to grow. It really goes to show that even though Newall wasn't exactly flamboyantly artistic as Cauron, there is subtlety in his work here. It's not glaringly for sure in the previous films which does leave open to interpretation.

I do love that small bit with the newspaper though. I love how Skeeter's voice echoes in his head and then goes all flustered as if trying to compete for Harry's attention in his head. It's a bit of comedy we rarely see in the series, if ever.

Things of Note

Music used in the scene: Track 8: Sirius Fire.
Music Cue list greatly supplied by The Harry Potter Lexicon
Goof from IMDB: Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Harry reads Sirius' letter to him, the shot of the letter reveals that Sirius's last words in it are "By the way, the bird bites," but in the voice-over Sirius says "P.S. The bird bites."
We get to see the Daily Prophet again. This time around it looks a bit more grainy like an old fashioned newspaper, not as clear as the PoA one but definately not as neatly presented as the PS and CoS ones. It's actually quite neat to see the progression of the newspapers throughout the series.

(From left to right) PoA, CoS and PS Daily Prophets
In the opening pan shot of Hogwarts, it seems a cluster of buildings and towers has appeared on the left of the school this time around. It does make me wonder if they just added this portion for some more girth to the Hogwarts castle so it gave it a bit more of a smoother transition when panning to the owlery? Or if it's just adding for the sake of adding?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

	Contact Us - MuggleNet.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved. Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.